Mr. Aaron Morgan was born December 18, 1909. He attended Oak Hill School through the seventh grade and then attended Auburn Consolidated Schools, driving a covered wagon with a pair of mules as a school "bus." He finished high school on a basketball scholarship to Tupelo Military Institute. He earned his B.S. degree from Mississippi State University and his M.A. degree from the University of Mississippi.

For seven years, Mr. Morgan was a classroom teacher, and for thirty-seven years, he was a school administrator. He spent seventeen years on the Tupelo Public School District school board, eleven of those years as the chair. Among the many positions of service Mr. Morgan has carried out are membership of the board of directors of the Mississippi State School Board Association, membership of the Mississippi State Accrediting Commission for three years, membership of the Mississippi State Criteria Committee for the study of school consolidation in the state, chair of District I Mississippi High School Board Association, chair of the Tupelo Education Association, membership of Mississippi State and National School Board Associations, membership of Phi Delta Kappa, membership of Tupelo Lions Club for fifty-three years as well as past president and membership of Sight Service Committee and Goodfellows Committee, vice-president of Mid-South Lions Sight Service, Memphis, Tennessee, membership of Lee County and Mississippi State Four-H Advisory Councils, membership of Community Development Foundation, membership of board of directors of Mississippi Retired Public Employees Association, membership of Northeast Mississippi Retired Teachers, as well as helping organize and serving as first president of RTA, MRTA, NRTA, and AARP, helping to found and organize the Northeast Mississippi Historical and Genealogical Society as well as serving as its first treasurer, membership of Mississippi Association of Secondary Schools, membership of Red, Red Rose, and membership of Century Club of Methodist Children's Home in Jackson, Mississippi.

Throughout his career, Mr. Morgan has received a number of awards and honors including Outstanding Citizen of Tupelo from the Junior Auxiliary in 1986 as a co-winner with his wife, "The Book of Golden Deeds" from the Exchange Club of Tupelo, and the highest award given by Lion International, the "Melvin Jones Fellow," from the Tupelo Lions Club International Foundation.

Mr. Morgan was married to the late Arcada Herring Morgan, and they have a daughter, two grandchildren, and three great grandchildren.

This is an interview for the Mississippi Oral History Program at The University of Southern Mississippi. The interview is with Mr. Aaron Morgan and is being conducted on October 10, 1999. The interviewer is Marty Ramage.

(A portion of the interview relating to testing the tape recorder has been omitted from this transcript.)

Ramage: This is Marty Ramage. It is October 10, [1999]. We're here today, part of the Oral History Program in Lee County, Mississippi, and today we will be talking with Mr. Aaron Morgan. And Mr. Morgan, if you will, give me your full name, and the date of your birth, and when you were born.

Morgan: Well, you have my full name. And my date of birth is December 18, 1909.

Ramage: And who were your parents?

Morgan: My parents were J.W. Morgan. My mother was Carnathan. I grew up just east of Tupelo; we called ourselves five miles out of town, but-well, it was then because town just went to the Town Creek Bottom over here. You know. And I walked a mile and a half to Oak Hill School through the seventh grade.

Ramage: And what was your mother's first name?

Morgan: Tennie. They called her Tennie. And in the eighth grade, I went to Auburn. Now, these were one-teacher schools, and the year I was in the ninth grade, Auburn consolidated. And I entered Auburn Consolidated School and drove a covered wagon with a pair of mules as a school route to Auburn School.

Ramage: And you would pick up students along the way?

Morgan: That's right. That's right. And my daddy got $30 a month for that school route. And of course, I went through-back then, schools, part of them were eighth-grade schools, and part of them went on up tenth or eleventh grade. You know. And people just finished there and quit going. And so, I went to Auburn as far as I could go. And then I got a basketball scholarship to Tupelo Military Institute. That was TMI out here on Clayton Street. Some of the building is still there. And I finished high school there.

Ramage: Well, tell me about TMI and (inaudible).

Morgan: TMI was a real good private school, all boys. They even had a few boys from Central America up there. And all Southern states, almost, were represented, and it was strictly a military school. And I played basketball and played in the first football game I ever saw. (Laughter.) When I finished high school, now, back then you could teach without a degree.

Ramage: Now, did you take a test before they allowed you to teach without a degree?

Morgan: County Teachers Exam. I took a County Teachers Exam when I was-my first one was when I was sixteen years old. Just taking it to be taking, and I graduated at eighteen, and of course, I took it and made two-year license. And all you had to have was three-year license, then, for permanent. And there never had been a teacher in my family, but my daddy wanted me to teach school for some reason. And he carried me over to the county superintendent's office, Mr. Dewey Patterson, superintendent, and said, "This boy thinks he'd like to teach school."

He said, "Well, there are two places vacant. One at Mooreville, one at McGaughy." Now, McGaughy was an eighth-grade school down between Plantersville and Nettleton on [Highway] number 6.

And Mooreville is a bigger school, and I said, "Well, I'd rather try Mooreville."

He said, "Well, go out and check with the trustees." I did; got the place; started teaching, coaching, full-time, $60 a month, hauling boys around over the county playing basketball at my expense. (Laughter.) Do you want me to go on with this?

Ramage: Now, let me ask you this, two or three different questions. When you were at TMI, did you live there, or live on campus out at TMI?

Morgan: No. I went from home.

Ramage: So, you commuted back and forth.

Morgan: I commuted.

Ramage: All right. Now, the two-year license that you were referring to, once you passed that exam, would this two-year license mean that you could teach for two years?

Morgan: I could teach from then on.

Ramage: Oh, you could teach from then on.

Morgan: Yeah. But now, later regulations changed, and of course, when I retired, I had three or four sets of different kinds of teacher's license.

Ramage: Now, what was the difference in the two-year license back then, and a three-year license?

Morgan: Well, really, I couldn't answer that. Well, you see, I had the two-year license, but I had a one-year preceding that, which gave me three years. You see.

Ramage: So, you had both.

Morgan: Yeah. I had the three years.

Ramage: Now, when you started to teach, were you married then? When did you marry?

Morgan: I married then. I married when I started teaching.

Ramage: And who did you marry?

Morgan: My wife was a teacher; made a teacher. We both went to school in the summer and all the winter extension work and got our master's and beyond, summer and winter.

Ramage: Now, who was your wife?

Morgan: My wife was Arcada Herring from Mount Vernon Community, out close to Belden.

Ramage: How did you meet her?

Morgan: Well, now, this is interesting. She was a year older than I was, and she taught school at Auburn my last year I went to Auburn, and I actually had class-I had Latin class under her. That's pretty unusual, I guess, and that's when we met. And she taught forty-five years, and I taught for forty-four. And then, of course, when I retired I was appointed on the Tupelo school board and served on it for seventeen years.

Ramage: That's right. Now, Mr. Morgan, let me ask you. Did you go to college anytime? Did you and Mrs. Morgan go?

Morgan: Not regular college time; it was summer [and] extension work in the winter. We went the first two years at State Teacher's College at Hattiesburg. That's what it was, then, and then we transferred to Mississippi State and got our B.S. degree[s]. And then we transferred to Ole Miss and got our master's degree[s] and beyond.

Ramage: Now, what year did you and Mrs. Morgan marry?

Morgan: Nineteen twenty-eight. Young.

Ramage: Now, Mr. Morgan, let me ask you. Do you remember the Tupelo tornado of 1936?

Morgan: Sure. Sure. Now, I lived away from Mooreville and Tupelo for two years, and I was at McGaughy, that grammar school, [as] principal. I was twenty-five years old, and I thought I needed some administrative experience so I went down to McGaughy as principal, and I lived at Nettleton when the tornado hit Tupelo.

Ramage: Did it affect any of your family at all?

Morgan: It went right across my daddy's farm, but didn't do any damage, other than destroy some timber. A few years ago, there was a little tin off of houses over in the woods there on my place, now. I live out there, now.

Ramage: Now, teaching in a rural, county school, like McGaughy and being principal, was that interesting?

Morgan: It was.

Ramage: What were some of the adversities that you had to overcome?

Morgan: Well, now, this is interesting. I went up against a lot of challenges, but as far as adversities, I don't know that I would be able to name any. I did a little of everything at Mooreville. Now, when I was at McGaughy two years, I had been at Mooreville seven years, and the board of trustees at Mooreville came down to see me, if I'd come back to Mooreville as superintendent. Now, then, you were superintendent of the schools like Mooreville, you know, before the county unit system. And I talked to the county superintendent William Roper. I said, "Now, I don't quite have my degree, yet. What about this?"

He said, "If you can get it, get it. I'll help you all I can." So, I went back to Mooreville. They were on probation; just about lost their high school accreditation.

Ramage: Now, what year was this?

Morgan: That was in 1937. And in two years I had them full accredited, and we put in a commercial department. We put in an agricultural department. We were counted-well, to boast a little-one of the better schools of Lee County. When I left there in '47, I was their superintendent for ten years. It was a challenge, but it was with-I guess you'd say, with my leadership and community cooperation, we did things that were just about impossible.

Ramage: And brought it out of probation.

Morgan: Right. Right. Left a good graduating class when I left Mooreville. Of course, I left Mooreville and came to Lawhon here in Tupelo.

Ramage: Well, let me ask you. Going back to, like, McGaughy, was it a one-room school?

Morgan: Oh, no. No. There were four teachers. Four teachers.

Ramage: Now, how would you divide the classes up in that type of environment?

Morgan: Well, I taught the seventh and eighth grade myself. And then-

Ramage: So, those two were in one class?

Morgan: -the fifth and sixth maybe together; third and fourth; and first and second.

Ramage: So, it was groups like that.

Morgan: Mm-hm. Now, at Mooreville, when I went to Mooreville, they were not giving diplomas, but in a year or two, they started giving diplomas.

Ramage: Now, when you went to Mooreville, and they weren't giving diplomas, did it go through the twelfth grade at that time?

Morgan: Well, you might say that, but they were not accredited to give diplomas. And of course, Mooreville and Tupelo districts are adjoining here. You see. I spent forty-two years right here in two adjoining districts.

Ramage: Now, how is school different now compared to back then?

Morgan: Oh, goodness. Every way in the world.

Ramage: Now, would you let out in the fall for cotton picking?

Morgan: When I went back to Mooreville as superintendent, one of the first things one of the board members said to me, "Now, we don't want any fall break for cotton picking."

I said, "Well, amen. I agree 100 percent." And we never did have it after 1947.

Ramage: OK. So, before, they would actually let out for cotton picking.

Morgan: Let out for cotton picking. That's right.

Ramage: Now, would they let out in the spring for planting?

Morgan: No. No. No.

Ramage: It was mainly cotton picking.

Morgan: You see, up until nineteen and-well up until I started teaching, it was just five or five and a half months. That's all these schools ran. You knew that, didn't you?

Ramage: No.

Morgan: Sure. I never had gone to school anywhere except TMI over five or five and a half months until I finished high school.

Ramage: Now, how would the school year run? Like, three months in the-how would those five, five and a half months run?

Morgan: Well, they'd start over about the first of October and just run through. And the-I lost my line of thought.

Ramage: Five months, that?

Morgan: Oh, yeah. The first year I taught at Mooreville was the first year there was an eight-month school in Lee County.

Ramage: Now, was that at Mooreville?

Morgan: And Mooreville was eight-month school. My wife, that year, taught at Auburn, and she just had five and a half months.

Ramage: Now, were your teachers paid more than the teachers, like at Auburn?

Morgan: No. No.

Ramage: OK. So, they stuck it out and sacrificed in order to get more.

Morgan: Now, this might be of interest to you. I don't know. You can cut it off. I started [at] $60. I went two years at $60. I resigned and was going to get some administrative experience; I was about twenty-one years old. I changed my mind; the superintendent at Mooreville kept wanting me to come back. And so, I went back. And he said, "I think I can get you $80 if you come back." Well, I got $80 for one year; that was session '30, '31, I guess. And session '31, '32, there was no money; no state money, and no county money, much. And the accrediting commission said you had to run eight months to give credit, to give diplomas. But they ruled, since there was a shortage of money, that if schools would run seven months, they could give credit. So, we got paid that year, that was session '31, '32, for five and a half months; one and a half months we gave free of charge to get seven months so we could give credit. We didn't get a dime for a month and a half. That's pretty interesting.

Ramage: It is.

Morgan: They wouldn't do it now, would they? (Laughter.)

Ramage: You're exactly right, a lot of them. Now, that period-and let's see. You came out of school, and you first started teaching at Mooreville. Then you went down to McGaughy.

Morgan: After seven years, I went to McGaughy.

Ramage: And what year was it that you went to McGaughy?

Morgan: Thirty-five.

Ramage: And then?

Morgan: Left there in '37; went back to Mooreville.

Ramage: And then you were there until nineteen-

Morgan: -forty-seven.

Ramage: Forty-seven. Now, so, that was really a period right in the midst of the Depression. So, I guess you saw a lot of schoolchildren that really-I mean, their parents were really having it rough?

Morgan: That's right, as well as the teachers. When my daughter was a baby, my wife said to me, "I need a spool of thread." And we got to looking, I didn't have a nickel to my name. I never worried about clothing, food, or anything in my life. Never. We made it. Now, you're talking about the difference in schools now and then, the biggest difference is change of attitude on teachers' part and discipline. And of course the courts and federal government and so on is taking-is the cause of a lot of that discipline problem, and teacher problem, but I don't think teachers are as dedicated today as they used to be.

Ramage: What about the discipline? How was it when you first started teaching?

Morgan: Well, it was draw a line, and, "You walk it; don't cross it." (Laughter.) Now, I was considered one of the strongest disciplinarians Lee County ever had unless it was Ross Lawhon, but Ross did it in a different way from what I did. Ross, he was rough; he used a lot of rough language and all that type thing, you know, but not me. No school child ever heard me say an ugly word, and I coached basketball for years, free of charge, twenty-odd years and never drew a dime for coaching.

Ramage: Now, I want to ask you this. You had some championship ball teams, didn't you?

Morgan: I went to State three times, and won three times. (Laughter.)

Ramage: Now, was that the ladies basketball?

Morgan: That was the girls basketball team.

Ramage: And what years were-

Morgan: The first one was 1939, and then again in 1940, and then in '46, but I had a good team every time. During the nine-year period-and I was superintendent of the school and teaching a class or two.

Ramage: And coaching, too.

Morgan: And coaching girls basketball, and of course, this was World War II time, also, and that made a difference, but I had practically a state-winning team every year that nine years. Won 232 games; lost twenty-nine during that time. Two of the times that I won, I beat Fulton[?].

Ramage: In the state?

Morgan: At state, final.

Ramage: So, I mean it was Fulton and Mooreville.

Morgan: Two states, two times. First two times at Decatur Junior College, I beat Fulton in the final. And then in '46, we went to Delta State at Cleveland, and played the state final. Well, I've had a school experience; now, I can tell you. (Laughter.)

Ramage: Now, used to, you would bring-talk about coming to Tupelo and bringing your students to Tupelo, like for the Fair. Were those-

Morgan: Oh, we'd turn out for Fair day, yes. Buses would run.

Ramage: So, it would pick up the children in the fall?

Morgan: Buses would run and pick them up and bring them to the Fair, and set a date for them all to meet back at the bus and go home.

Ramage: I guess they'd saved the money all year, ready for the Fair, right?

Morgan: Oh, yeah. Yeah. (Laughter.)

Ramage: In that time period when you first started at Lawhon, and that was your, I guess-you started at Lawhon in 1947 as principal, right?

Morgan: Right.

Ramage: And where is Lawhon in the city? In East Tupelo?

Morgan: Yeah. See, it was East Tupelo High School. They gave diplomas in 1947, spring '47, and I moved there in July '47, and of course, East Tupelo had incorporated with Tupelo.

Ramage: Now, what year did that occur?

Morgan: That was '46.

Ramage: So, '46. So, they had already occurred.

Morgan: And so, I was there the first year under the Tupelo system, and East Tupelo had an agriculture department, and we had a scattered few agriculture boys, but very few. And they left the tenth grade out there for a year or two, and I recommended Mr. W.D. Allen was superintendent of Tupelo schools-and I recommended to him that they move the tenth grade on over to the high school. Then, for a number of years, it was ninth-grade school. HEW came along and made it an eighth-grade school. And of course now, it's a fourth-grade school.

Ramage: Now, when you went in there, were there any difficulties from what you'd been-

Morgan: Well, you mean there from the changeover?

Ramage: Compared to Mooreville. From, like, Mooreville, the big differences there.

Morgan: Well, not that much. You see, Lawhon, East Tupelo, then, they had lost their high school, and you know how people feel about that. And I had to go through that transition there and try to handle that. They had a band out there, and Tupelo High School had come over and picked up the band uniforms and carried them over there. And they resented that. And I had to go through a good deal there, but it worked out all right.

Ramage: So, I mean, that was a-consolidation can be politically tough.

Morgan: Always. Always.

Ramage: Now, what was East Tupelo? Did they have a nickname? Like the Golden Wave of Tupelo. Do you remember?

Morgan: No, I don't believe so. I don't believe so.

Ramage: Now, it was named Lawhon, for Mr. Lawhon?

Morgan: After I went there, just after I went there, they had people to recommend names. Ross had been there for-I think he spent nine years there, and he was away two years before I went. Mr. Cole went from there to Oxford and taught over there, was head of it. And Ross was there nine years, and he got into politics and was sheriff one time of Lee County. But-

Ramage: And so they named the school Lawhon?

Morgan: Somebody recommended-he did a good part by East Tupelo. He was partly what was trying to break up Mooreville and bring Mooreville to East Tupelo; he was that. Yeah. Great rivals, now, but still, he ran a good school in his way, and-

Ramage: So, Mooreville at one time was, I mean, I guess y'all were rivals, number one.

Morgan: Right. I was in Hattiesburg at the State Teachers College, and my telephone rang one night, and one of my board members called me, said, "I think you need to come home." That was in the summertime. So, the next morning I saw my professors-I was supposed to meet classes- and told them what. So, I took off home, and straightened things out, and went back, all at my expense.

Ramage: And it was primarily that they were trying to consolidate Mooreville into East Tupelo.

Morgan: Right. Right. Right. They enjoyed-no, I'd better not say that! (Laughter.) Man that was the head of a newspaper here in Tupelo. (Laughter.)

Ramage: And then, you came on in to Lawhon. And how long were you at Lawhon?

Morgan: Twenty-five years.

Ramage: Saw a lot of changes there.

Morgan: When I left Mooreville, I don't think there was a family in Mooreville that wanted me to leave. I'm boasting, now.

Ramage: I think you're right.

Morgan: When I left Lawhon, I don't think there was a family in Lawhon that wanted me to leave, but, of course, I appreciate that. I spoke to a group last Wednesday out-senior citizens out at Bogue Fala Baptist Church at Mooreville; about half of them went to school to me out there, senior citizens, now. Some of them seventy-five years old. (Laughter.)

Ramage: I guess that you saw a lot of changes at Lawhon. When you left was it an eighth-grade school at that time? When you left? Now, you went through the integration period of time.

Morgan: I did.

Ramage: What do you think was the secret of Tupelo? Because there were very little problems here in Tupelo, you know, during that period of time. What do you attribute that to?

Morgan: Well, I think that people pretty well felt as I did, that it was time for it to come. I was always, from the time I grew up, would have been for freedom of choice, for that matter. Now, when they started forcing busing, I didn't go along with that, but Tupelo handled it well. Let me tell you how I handled it, if it's in order. They bused them to me; we didn't have any blacks on the east side. And they bused some over there, and I always in the fall would call them all in the auditorium, all the junior-high-age groups. And I put out a student handbook with all the rules and regulations and so on, and I'd go over that with them at the beginning of school. And I-after the blacks had come, I did that. And I said, "Now, that means everybody, whether you're black or you're white or you're some other color, that means you, what's in that book." I never had a minute's trouble with a black.

One day my counselor at the cafeteria said, "Mr. Morgan, there are some black girls going to come to you about having black history week." You know they have it in February. And so, in a day or two, well, they did. I was sitting at a table out at the cafeteria.

They said, "Mr. Morgan, can we have black history week sometime?"

I said, "No, you can't." And I paused a little. I said, "Now, you want me to tell you why you can't? We don't have white history week; we're not going to have black history week. Every week is history week." I never did hear any more about it. I never did have one bit of trouble with a black while I was there. If everybody'd have handled it like that, it'd have been a lot different. Long as you back up, they'll keep coming.

Ramage: Let me ask you this. Tupelo, now, y'all would have meetings. Did you have a lot of rapport with the businessmen in Tupelo, throughout?

Morgan: Well, we had this that's already going on in the spring. What do you call it?

Ramage: Industry education?

Morgan: Industry education. That started back then. That was, I guess, about the extent of it.

Ramage: I know you and your wife, both, were very instrumental in the historical society here.

Morgan: We helped organize it.

Ramage: Right. And really preserving history. Did you teach history?

(End of tape one, side one. Tape one, side two is blank. The interview continues on tape two, side one.)

Ramage: All right. This is tape number two of Mr. Aaron Morgan. And Mr. Morgan, we were saying that you and your wife, both, were instrumental in the Historical and Genealogical Society. You, in fact, helped found that organization.

Morgan: Helped to found it. Right.

Ramage: If you could, tell us some things that you remember throughout your life, interesting tidbits on Tupelo and Lee County history that you remember over your life.

Morgan: Well, I remember holding the mules, out on Main Street, down there, and my daddy going in at Reed's and buying our winter clothes. How's that?

Ramage: That's interesting.

Morgan: They built bins along TKE, there on Spring Street, up and down the sidewalk to put watermelons in. And we hauled watermelons, and filled these bins and sold them, there, night and day; we'd keep them open at night. We grew watermelons at home. That was one of our money crops. And that's one thing that's interesting.

Ramage: Yeah, it is. And so, y'all would keep these bins open. Who would own those bins?

Morgan: The people that put them up. Like we had one as our bin.

Ramage: What did they look like?

Morgan: About the size of-if you remember an ordinary wagon bed. You know. You know, like that.

Ramage: Now, was Saturday a busy day in Tupelo?

Morgan: Saturday was a busy day. Saturday was the day we went to town, when I was at Mooreville. Uncle Gus Morgan, he wasn't related to me, but everybody called him Uncle Gus. He was getting pretty old. He lived right there at the schoolhouse, and I lived on the school grounds. And he sold butter and eggs and so on at town, you know, and I'd carry him to town on Saturday. And he'd do his do, you know, and meet me back at TKE's for me to bring him home. (Laughter.)

Ramage: So, really everybody, or most people came to town on Saturday.

Morgan: On Saturday. Saturday was the day.

Ramage: And now, would town stay open at night?

Morgan: No. And you knew just about everybody you saw when you came to town, too. You know. Up and down the sidewalks, and so on in the stores. You'd just know nearly everybody. One thing interesting I might tell you, they had a Red Cross drive on. And they asked me if I'd go with Mr. Bob Reed, Jack's daddy, to the radio station to promote Red Cross. Well, we had ten minutes. Well, Mr. Bob said, "Well, who wants to go first?"

I said, "Well, you go ahead first." Well, he talked-we didn't have but about nine minutes, of course, out of ten, and he talked for seven minutes, and before he got through, he was talking about Hart Schaffner clothes. (Laughter.) So, I didn't get much time in on the Red Cross deal. (Laughter.)

Ramage: Now, years ago, it was illegal-liquor was illegal. And alcoholic beverages. Do you remember-and you don't have to call names, but-bootleggers? Was bootlegging big in the county?

Morgan: Oh, goodness. Yeah. I remember-and I never took a drink in my life; let me tell you that at the beginning. But there were-it was just a problem all the time. I could name a lot of names; not going to, of course, but let me tell you this. When they were trying to legalize liquor, they asked me and a couple of others-maybe I'd better not call names-to go on the radio against legalizing liquor. Of course, I was against it. And we did, and there was a bootlegger lived out at East Tupelo. And he told somebody right after that, he said, "Well, I've sold it to everybody that was on that program but Aaron Morgan." (Laughter.)

Ramage: Oh, that's good. So, you've seen the bootlegging days.

Morgan: Oh, goodness, I lived through it. There's a very common name right here in Lee County, now, you see all along that was really one of the bigger ones of the county.

Ramage: Well, now, let me ask you this, Mr. Aaron. What-do you remember political figures throughout your life? Did you go to-did they have political speakings and-

Morgan: Oh, goodness, yes.

Ramage: More than today, really.

Morgan: Theodore G. Bilbo with his red tie would come up here and get on the courthouse yard and win everybody over. You know who I'm talking about. Bilbo was the governor and senator. And I remember hearing Paul Johnson speak on the courthouse yard when he was elected governor. And he really made a real speech, and he won over a lot of people.

Ramage: Who do you think has been our best governor, in your lifetime?

Morgan: I don't know, hardly. There's one I can't think of his name. He came right along in the '30s, middle '30s, but I can't think of his name. We've had some good governors.

Ramage: Now when did you see transportation improve and go, like, the highway from here to Mooreville? When did all that, you know, get blacktopped, and when did that improve from just, I guess, a rock road. Was that during the '30s?

Morgan: Well, you see, there are three highways; 78 Highway, from Tupelo to Fulton, you know. The first one was a nine-foot wide one that's still a little of it out there beyond Skyline off the old highway, we call it, now. And then of course this new-I don't know. The paving probably started along the early '30s. Of course, when I went to Mooreville, it was pretty far away to me. (Laughter.) A pretty far away place, and I grew up right out here. (Laughter.)

Ramage: It took you some time to get out there.

Morgan: Yeah. I think I'd been to Fulton one time when I went to-when I was grown.

Ramage: So, transportation was not as easy as it is, today.

Morgan: Oh, no. You know, the first concrete road south of the Mason-Dixon Line went right through Tupelo here; Verona Saltillo, nine-feet wide.

Ramage: Now, how would people drive on a nine-foot-

Morgan: Well, there were not many people driving. You see.

Ramage: And if you met a car, would you just go over? You could take a shoulder, and they could take a shoulder.

Morgan: Yeah. You'd just have to. I remember the first car I ever saw. I remember the first airplane I ever saw.

Ramage: That was a big deal?

Morgan: Yes, sir. The first car I ever saw, a man lived over there close to Auburn, just above the Auburn interchange of Highway 78.

Ramage: Do you remember his name?

Morgan: Mr. George McGuire. And he had a car, and he came over to our house; he and my daddy were good friends. He came over to our house one day for something. The first airplane was down on the Fairgrounds. (Laughter.)

Ramage: Now, let me ask you. When you went to-well, excuse me. Let me back up. Did y'all have electricity growing up?

Morgan:No! Electricity was put in Mooreville School in early to mid-thirties. I was there. Mr. John B. Thompson from Saltillo was superintendent; Jamie Whitten married his daughter Rebecca while he-Mr. Skinner was there as the superintendent the first four years I was there, and then Mr. John B. Thompson followed him and stayed three years. And while he was there, they put in electricity.

Ramage: Now, before then, how would the students see? Would they have candles and coal-oil lanterns?

Morgan: Well, yes. Mr. [H. C.] Marion was a mail carrier, and mail carriers were the wealthy people in the community, back then. And he lived right below Mooreville School, and he had some of these incandescent light things that we used some at the school.

Ramage: Now, they would burn off of what? Were they off of coal oil?

Morgan: Oil of some kind. Oil of some kind. Mm-hm.

Ramage: Now the homes out there or the homes in the county, I guess they didn't have electricity, either, until about that time.

Morgan: Oh, no. Oh, no. No. No water or electricity.

Ramage: So, you'd get your water from the pump?

Morgan: Yeah. Yeah, the pump was right there on the school grounds in Mooreville, and right there is where we got our water.

Ramage: When did they start having school lunches at school? Do you remember about the time, the era?

Morgan: Right after I went back to Mooreville. There was a little Baptist church right there adjoining Mooreville school grounds, and they disbanded. And Mooreville School bought the property. And not long after I went back to Mooreville in '47, we set up a cafeteria in that little church building. Now, that'd be along the late '40s or early '50s.

Ramage: Now, were you already at Lawhon, then?

Morgan: No. That was when I was at Mooreville.

Ramage: You were at Mooreville.

Morgan: Yeah.

Ramage: OK. Now, would that have been the '30s or the '40s?

Morgan: No, now, wait a minute. I got my time a little bit mixed up there. That was in the early '30s, late '30s and early '40s. Right. Right.

Ramage: So, up until that time, students brought their lunch.

Morgan: Brought their lunch.

Ramage: I'm sure you've had to share your lunches with students, some that didn't have it?

Morgan: Yeah. Yeah. And there were a crowd of us in our family; there were eight children. And I had four brothers older than I was, and we'd fight over who carried the dinner bucket. (Laughter.) Mother'd pack our lunch in a gallon bucket. People now hardly know what a gallon bucket is. You don't see no such thing, anymore.

Ramage: Now, did it have a top on it?

Morgan: Yeah.

Ramage: And you would take your lunch in that.

Morgan: And at Oak Hill School, right across the road from the school building, there was a bluff, and right at the foot of that bluff was a spring, and that's where we got our water. That's where we got our water. And my daddy furnished most of the wood that they burned in the heater to heat the school building with.

Ramage: Now, would you-that is interesting. What was your normal lunch that your mother would prepare for you?

Morgan: Oh, a baked potato, molasses and butter, sorghum molasses, sugar and biscuit. You know. You can butter a biscuit and put sugar on there, and it's good eating, (laughter) and that type thing. That's right. I'd walk home a mile and a half and go by the stove and get me a baked potato and put it in my pocket, and go by the peanut house, and pick me off a few peanuts and put them in my pocket, and take off for the back of the field to get the cows, a mile nearly. That's right.

Ramage: Now, even after you retired in what? Seventy-two?

Morgan: Seventy-two.

Ramage: You were instrumental for the next two decades in the Tupelo city school system.

Morgan: I retired the first of July, and the first-coming March, they appointed me on the Tupelo school board, and I served for seventeen years, the last eleven years as chairman. And then I resigned. I could have served twenty years if I'd filled out my term, but my wife was in bad health, and so I had to get out of it.

Ramage: What do you think the secret of Tupelo has been? And Lee County? I mean, I guess the secret of this area as far as attracting businesses, and then having a wonderful school system.

Morgan: Well, now, a long time there were a group of businesspeople here in Tupelo that didn't want outside people. I'm not going to, but I could name some. They didn't want them. Now, the head of the paper that I'm talking about helped to get people, helped to get the thing rolling. Now, he and I differed a lot, but he was a real close friend of mine when he died.

Ramage: George McLean.

Morgan: George McLean. And he helped to open things up and then some of the younger group-

Ramage: -followed him.

Morgan: Followed him there, and they began to open up. Now, many-a time, Phil Nanney at the Bank of Mississippi called me in and said, "So-and-so has applied for a job at an industry here somewhere." Said-he knew I knew him; probably went to school to me. He said, "What kind of person is he? How does he feel toward labor unions?" (Laughter.) And you know, they didn't want anybody that was favorable toward labor unions. You know. Many-a time, Josh Whiteside, Peoples Bank, did the same thing; Phil Nanney at the Bank of Mississippi. I'd tell them what I thought. One time they called me in about a family that grew up in Mooreville. They mentioned one, and I was sort of backing off a little bit.

I said, "Now, which one is it?" And they told me. And I said, "Now, that's a different story. Now, he's all right. He's all right." (Laughter.) Yeah. It's been interesting.

Ramage: So, I guess the businesspeople, I mean, Tupelo, the school system has been a wonderful school system.

Morgan: Well, you know, I was going to say it a while ago. You know a certain person here in town-well, I don't mind telling you who he was, Perrin Purvis[?]. Perrin told a group from Jackson one time-you know, he was a senator and so on-he said, "If Tupelo could suck as much as they could blow, they'd have the Gulf of Mexico up to Okolona." (Laughter.) So, that attitude, you know, that attitude, that bragging, it paid off. It paid off. Now, I don't know. I think personally-you may not want to tape this. I don't think Tupelo schools have always been just what they've been put up to be. I don't think they are, now. I don't think they are, now.

Ramage: But I know as long as you were in there, you strived-

Morgan: Now years ago, a good many years ago, people got the philosophy that more money would solve the problem for education. Well, more money won't solve the [problem] for anything; it's how it's used. You know. But that philosophy of more money. "Pour the money to education, you'll have better education." That's not right. Not right.

Ramage: I guess-what were some of the obstacles when you were serving on the Tupelo board, when you were serving as chairman, that you had to go through.

Morgan: I really didn't have any. I never did even get a telephone call. Of course, people, you know, students would be suspended and expelled and they had a right to come before the board for a hearing. First before a hearing committee and then if they desired, before the board, and bring a lawyer with them, and so on. And that was not my way of doing things. But I made it all right. I made it all right. I'd always come up with something that would surprise them. And Doyce Deas was on the board for a long time, and she asked me one day, said, "Where'd you get so many sayings, that you say?" (Laughter.)

Such as, "Right is right if nobody does it, and wrong is wrong if everybody does it." And, that type thing. You know. And, "Keep people from following the crowd." And on mine and my wife's tombstone is engraved, "It's better to build boys and girls than to try to mend men and women." You get the point?

Ramage: Repeat that again.

Morgan: "It's better to build boys and girls than to try to mend men and women." Try to build them right as they come up, and you won't have to mend them when they get grown.

Ramage: That's exactly right.

Morgan: That's engraved on my tombstone. It's my philosophy.

Ramage: You know. I guess it's-of course, these tapes are going to be around a long time, and if you could tell anybody what your secret for living has been, a hundred years from now, what would you say?

Morgan: Well, nothing is better than-now what's your question?

Ramage: All right. What has been your secret for living a good life?

Morgan: Well, I believed something, and I stayed with it, regardless. I had a strong belief, strong faith, and I've stood by it. I think people have appreciated it, and that's it. That's it.

Ramage: You're right.

Morgan: If I believe something, I'm willing to stand by it. There's one other thing before you get through I want to-if it's interesting to you that-

Ramage: Go ahead.

Morgan: -that's back on school. I made a list of the schools that were in Lee County when I was growing up.

Ramage: Do you want to call them out?

Morgan: And I wrote them down so I'd get them. I'm starting at the north end of the county. Cedar Hill, Guntown, Unity, Birmingham, Saltillo, Fellowship, Beech Springs, Oak Hill, Belden. Now, I don't know where this got its name, but it was Burnt School.

Ramage: B-U-R-N-T?

Morgan: Burnt School. It was right up Saltillo Road, right up above Indian Hills, there. Clayton. Clayton was up north of Auburn. Auburn, Priceville. Priceville's right out here; the big cemetery. And Eggville, up north of Mooreville. Bissel, Plantersville, McGaughy, Shiloh, Verona, Palmetto, Brewer, Shannon. And one I've got a question mark: Old Union. I think there was one at Old Union, but I'm not positive; now, that was out from Shannon. Twenty-three I know; that's schools that were operating. One- [and] two-teacher schools, mostly, or largely. When I was growing up, before-now, consolidation got in a big way along the mid-twenties.

Ramage: Now, did it come in waves?

Morgan: Yeah.

Ramage: I mean, you'd have one wave. Let people settle down, and then another wave would come.

Morgan: Yeah. But I just thought you'd be interested in that.

Ramage: Now, the black schools-and I know you probably don't remember all of the black schools-

Morgan: I don't.

Ramage: But how much relationship did the white schools have with the black schools as far as teachers?

Morgan: Not any that I know of. I didn't know any but here in Tupelo. See, I grew up on the east side, and there were no blacks on the east side. None up and down the east side of Lee County there; there were just no blacks.

Ramage: The other thing that I was going to ask you about is the Tupelo cotton mill. Do you remember the cotton mill?

Morgan: Oh, yeah.

Ramage: Now, was there ever a school down there?

Morgan: Yeah, there was. There was. Yeah, there was.

Ramage: There was a school for those children at the cotton mill?

Morgan: Mm-hm. Now, I don't remember much about the cotton mill because I was a country boy out yonder, and (laughter) about all I knew about Tupelo was just when I-

(There is a brief silence on the tape.)

Morgan: -wood and sell it. Haul it to town in a wagon.

Ramage: Now, in the, I guess-Elvis. Did you ever know any of Elvis' family?

Morgan: Oh, I knew all of his family. I knew his daddy, his uncles, his great-uncles, his granddaddy, and all of them.

Ramage: Now, were they from-what area were they from?

Morgan: Right out on the east side there. Right there around where the birthplace is. Now, there were not but a few houses in East Tupelo; maybe not over a half a dozen in all East Tupelo, when I was a kid, growing up. But Mr. Noah Presley, that's our sheriff's daddy, now, was a brother to Elvis' granddaddy. Elvis' granddaddy was Mr. D. Presley; I knew him well. And then Elvis' daddy, I knew him. Elvis was at East Tupelo School through the fifth grade, and then they moved over on this side of town, somewhere, and he went to Milam in the sixth grade, and then they went to Memphis, and I moved to Lawhon the year he was here in the sixth grade. So, I missed him one year.

Ramage: Now, where were the Presleys from? Were they from East Tupelo, or did they come-

Morgan: All I ever knew, they were from East Tupelo. Big family of them; a number of Elvis' cousins went to school to me down there. Like I said, Harold Ray, the sheriff, went to school to me; I've paddled him. (Laughter.)

Ramage: So, now, do you believe in paddling? Right?

Morgan: Yes, sir. The right kind of paddling, I certainly do.

Ramage: You know, now, they have time-outs for them.

Morgan: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I'll tell you this. Two or three years ago, I went into Ramada Inn one day, and there was two men standing there. Both of them went to school to me at Lawhon. One of them is-well, they were probably fifty-five years old. And I hadn't seen one of them in so long, I like to not known who he was, and the other one said, "Well, there are three men that could paddle me today, and I'd just stand and take it." And said, "And he's one of them." (Laughter.)

And there's one boy that died two or three years ago; he was about seventy years old. He made one remark one time. He said I was the only one could ever paddle him and make him like it. (Laughter.)

Ramage: Mm-hm.

Morgan: You've got to have their respect, number one. If you don't have respect, you're out. School, anything else, for that matter. That's number one. If you've got their respect, you can spank them, they'll take it.

Ramage: Mm-hm. Now, the Tupelo Hospital. Do you remember when it came?

Morgan: Sure.

Ramage: Or when it was down-or when it was built?

Morgan: When I was nineteen years old, I had appendicitis, and the hospital was where the First Methodist Church is, now. That's where I had it.

Ramage: Main Street and Green Street corner.

Morgan: That's where I had it. There where the church is right now. And then, when they built the hospital, my brother, just older than me, was a construction man. And he was carpenter foreman of the original hospital down there on the hill. And he went with this construction company then to Gadsden, Alabama, and spent about thirty years over there and retired and came back here. He's dead, now.

(End of tape two, side one. The interview continues on tape two, side two.)

Ramage: All right, Mr. Morgan, we're going to start back. And, in Lee County, what are some of the best politicians you remember? Or some of the unique personalities that you remember in your ninety years?

Morgan: Well, I don't know. Of course, naturally, it would be people who served a lot of terms, you know, such as Byron Long and William Roper and Dewey Patterson and that group.

Ramage: Bilbo McCullough.

Morgan: Bilbo McCullough, and Bob Horton, Little Bob-we called him-Horton was in there.

Ramage: Now, any funny incidents-

Morgan: And of course, my sister served eight years as circuit clerk. (Laughter.)

Ramage: That's exactly right. Mildred Pearce.

Morgan: Mildred Pearce. That's right.

Ramage: She was a Morgan.

Morgan: That's right. I gave her her high school diploma, and she played on one of those state champion ball teams.

Ramage: Now, did you give her any political advice?

Morgan: No. No, I really didn't.

Ramage: Now, do you remember much about any incidents that occurred, I guess, in time that you found interesting? Can you remember offhand any incidents?

Morgan: Well, I don't know. It's hard, you know; when you're ninety, it's hard to think sometimes. (Laughter.)

Ramage: Maybe some of this will-in the ball, who was Mooreville's big rival, in your basketball?

Morgan: Fulton. Fulton. You'd see Mooreville and Fulton girls, and not a gym in the country would hold them. No. Not a gym in the country'd hold them.

Ramage: Now, were you rivals with Lawhon?

Morgan: Now, Mooreville and East Tupelo were rivals. They were rivals, and at one time, the three teams were really the best three teams in the state of Mississippi. But East Tupelo fell by the wayside. But no, there's no rivalry between Mooreville and Lawhon. Of course, Lawhon wasn't a high school, and-

Ramage: Right. It was East Tupelo.

Morgan: That's right. That's right. And I don't think you'd be interested in this, but this was one of the miracles that happened. We didn't have a gym at Mooreville when I went there in '37, and Ms. Ruby Akers was my English teacher, and she was coaching girls. And she decided she wanted to give it up. Well, I took them; superintendent of the school, teaching a class or two, and we'd say, "Well, we've got to have a gym."

We took the boys and went to the woods and cut the logs and hauled them to the school grounds and sawed them up in lumber and built a gym, and hired one person to oversee the building. All we bought was roof and floor and a big garage that held the beams up. Think that's ever happened in Lee County?

Ramage: No.

Morgan: And then, that was beginning spring of '38; we went in the gym in January of '39 and won state, March '39. (Laughter.)

Ramage: Hm. Now, let me ask you. The people in the county, how did the county people-because you're a county person-how did the people in the county feel about Tupelo?

Morgan: Well, they held back. They didn't think too well of Tupelo.

Ramage: Why was that?

Morgan: Well, they thought Tupelo tried to run things and of course, the newspaper was entering into that, you know, a lot, and they thought Tupelo was trying to pull all the county into Tupelo. You know. And at one time, they were. At one time, they were. Yeah. And just that type thing.

Ramage: It's probably better now than it's ever been. Don't you think? The relationship?

Morgan: I think it is. Now, this-what do you call it when you start having these community RCDCs. That did a lot of good. The first RCDC meeting ever held was at Mooreville School, county, and that did a lot to bring the city and county together.

Ramage: RCDC stood for Rural-

Morgan: Rural Community Development-

Ramage: -Council.

Morgan: Council.

Ramage: And so, it was really the Chamber of Commerce that worked with CDF, Community Development Foundation, here in Tupelo as like a community outreach program.

Morgan: Right. Right. Right. Actually, it was part of CDF. You know. Part of it. See, civic clubs would sponsor communities and schools. I've been in the Tupelo Lion's Club for fifty-two years, and we used to sponsor communities, and we'd go out and give programs and give assistance of different kinds. I remember we had Brewer one time on our list; we had Mooreville and that type thing. And other civic clubs did the same thing. And naturally, that pulled you together.

Ramage: Did the school systems-well, I guess consolidation, like you said, there were different waves of consolidation and it came in different times, but that caused animosity in the communities, right?

Morgan: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. My daddy was trustee at Oak Hill for long years, and he was for consolidation. He was pretty progressive, and he was for consolidation, and they got a petition at Oak Hill, and they were going to put the school at East Tupelo. East Tupelo had some-they didn't have a school down there, but had some people that had some pull. Priceville right out there and Oak Hill, and you're going to consolidate and put the schools at East Tupelo. Well, they circulated a petition, and Mr. Alice Reese that owned a lot of property out here, up Saltillo Road, there, and he had a son-in-law lived up above him, there, Mr. Jim Davenport. And they carried the petition. Mr. Jim-now these big landowners didn't want that consolidation because they thought it was going to raise their tax. And Mr. Alice Reese, he was bad to say, "By golly goes."

And Mr. Jim Davenport was his son-in-law. He said, "Jim, by golly goes, you'd better not sign that petition!" (Laughter.) It died. And later on, it really happened, but we went the Auburn way rather than that direction. We were over on that side of the district. But he didn't want any consolidation of the schools if it was going to cost him some tax money. (Laughter.) And that was the feeling in every district, you see.

Ramage: So, you had some that were scared that it was going to cost them. And what were the positives of consolidation? Just a more consolidated school where you could-

Morgan: Well, just better offering in everything. Better programs. You see, we didn't have anything at Oak Hill. (Laughter.) Just school; that was all! And that was it, period. But got to Auburn, well, we won county championship basketball one year, Auburn did; played out in the TMI gymnasium. It was the only gymnasium in Lee County, and we played there and won county championship. And it meant a lot; it was the thing to do.

Ramage: I guess-what else? Well, now Mr. Morgan, you say that your birthday, you've got a birthday coming up in December.

Morgan: December 18.

Ramage: And how old will you be this December 18?

Morgan: I'll be ninety years old.

Ramage: That is wonderful. You've seen a lot of changes here.

Morgan: I tell them there are three important weekends in succession: my birthday, Christmas, and New Year's. (Laughter.) One week apart.

Ramage: That's exactly right. That's exactly right. And well, we do appreciate you being a part of this, taking your-you know, scheduling out of your busy schedule-

Morgan: Well, I don't-I go to church and go to the Lion's Club and go to some other meetings, like I said. Wednesday is that one, and-

Ramage: Now church, has that been always important in your life?

Morgan: Every time the church opens, pretty well, I'm there.

Ramage: What church?

Morgan: I go to St. Mark [United] Methodist Church here on the east side, there, across from the Presley birthplace. I've been there since 1947.

Ramage: Oh, really? When you became principal out there, you became part of that community?

Morgan: Yeah. That's right. That's right.

Ramage: I think that's important.

Morgan: That's right. Yeah. Dot [D. D.] Leathers followed me. You know Dot, don't you?

Ramage: Mm-hm.

Morgan: Followed me when I retired. Dot was a Methodist, and he asked me did I think he should-he went to Wesley-go to St. Mark. I said, "Well, now, Dot, I don't want to tell you where to go to church, but I think you should, because you're part of the community." So, he did.

Ramage: You've seen East Tupelo, that area out there, really grow, haven't you?

Morgan: Oh, goodness. People don't know how the east side has grown unless they get out in those hills, there. Now, the old East Tupelo part is still sort of a sore spot. But you can go out up through those hills there and see those quarter of a million dollar houses and Deer Park going up to the Presley Lake. Go drive up through there some time, and see Deer Park Subdivision there on the east. Nice homes. Quarter of a million dollar homes back there.

Ramage: Now, the hill, Martin Hill, is that the large hill going up in East Tupelo?

Morgan: Yeah. Now, the old original highway, [Highway] 78, went up Martin Hill there, and across there. South of the old highway, we call it the old highway, now. Main Street. South of Main Street. You know, you go out [Highway] Number 6 there a little way and take your left and go up on what we call Martin Hill. Mm-hm. That was the old highway.

Ramage: Well, Mr. Aaron Morgan, I do want to thank you.

Morgan: Well, I'm glad to do it.

Ramage: And you've been wonderful throughout your career in Lee County. And you've done a lot for a lot people.

Morgan: Well, I hope so, and I have lots of people tell me that. I hope so.

Ramage: Thank you.

(End of the interview.)